met with mormons today

in retrospect, i wanted to talk to the mormons because they approached me on the street. i figured anyone who is willing to go out and preach their message to other people must have really compelling thoughts on the questions i've been having. i have been disappointed.
today i talked to 3 mormons at my place from 2 until 3:45ish when ryan came over. when they first entered, they saw the sign to take off their shoes and asked if i wanted them to take off their shoes. that reminded me that i still had on mine. i took off my own and started to tell them that since they were just visiting it wasn't necessary. one of them, the swedish one, whom i shall call "Swede", started saying it was a good idea to have that policy. the other two i shall call "Notag" for lack of that tag that identifies you as a member of the church of LDS (which is almost LSD), and "Curly" for the curly hair.
when they sat down i offered drinks, but they declined. then they asked me if they could start off with a prayer. i said sure they could pray, i don't mind, but i also don't believe in it. i didn't know if that was ok with them, for me to be praying even though i don't believe in the prayer. they said it was ok, though i still feel weird about that. then they said because i am the man of the house that i could choose who would say the prayer. that was very strange. i said that i didn't care who led the prayer. i think Swede did.
one of the first questions was "why does Notag have a no name tag, while Swede and Curly do?". the reason was that Swede and Curly were missionaries. They decided to go for 18 months (some amount of time, forget the exact amount) and preach their word. Swede and Curly were very enthusiastic. i commented on that. they responded that they were very happy and excited to share their message with me.
Swede did most of the talking for the three of them. she said that god was like a family, a father. i asked her what specific experience she has had with god like that. she talked about how her father had converted to mormonism when he was about 20. that experience wasn't hers, but it was rather specific. she was "brought up in the church".
they asked me about what god i would believe in. if there were a god, what would be some key characteristics. this struck me. i had never considered making up a god on my own. when i think about god, i think about the god presented to me by other people. i said that and started to think of what characteristics i think are necessary for me to believe in a god. all the standard "omni-*" descriptors came to mind. i think i fell flat on that question. i added that i wanted something that i could verify independently. then i paraphrased that famous guy and said that when i get to the pearly gates, and they ask me why i didn't believe, i'd say there was too little evidence. it's impossible for me to distinguish whether this is all made up or real.
following up that question, i asked what could happen that would make them say "you know what, i was wrong. mormonism is a mistake."? Swede jumped in saying that this was a really great question. they all thought it was a good question. they didn't really have an answer for it at the time. they answered, but nothing they said made an impression on me. they've probably forgotten what they said by now. it was clear that this was not a question they had considered and answered before.
i asked them for some sort of proof that what they were saying was fact. they responded that i should pray about it and read the bible. right there, i had two more points to talk about. 1 prayer without faith, 2 the bible has many translations and is only one of many holy books.
prayer: they had asked me to pray before they came in preparation of this meeting. i prayed, but it felt almost disrespectful. i asked them if it's ok to pray even if you don't believe in it, and is it really prayer at that point? Notag had the most interesting thing to say in response to that. she said that it was clear that i was earnest in my efforts and that no one would take offense to it, least of all god.
holy books: Swede and Curly said that i would need to read the book of mormon and the bible in order to fully answer my questions. this is how i feel about that: i don't currently believe in the bible or book of mormon as literal truth. they are just books as far as i'm concerned, not revelations from god. therefore if i find myself reading them and convinced thoroughly, i would have to believe that the same could be true of other books as well. maybe the other books would be even more convincing. unfortunately, people spend their entire lives on a single book and single translation. there seems to be so much information to sift through that it's more than i can do before i die, the ultimate deadline for any job. (apparently mormons will baptize someone by proxy even after death, but that wasn't brought up just then). my dilemma with reading the book of mormon or any religious book is that i want to be thorough about it. i have friends who believe and have told me the same thing about the quran (spelling?) and the bhagavad gita. they said that there's only one translation of the book of mormon done by the 14 year old joseph smith in the 1600s from hieroglyphics written on gold tablets, uncovered here in america after being written in 600 b.c. that cuts down the work a little. Swede said that the mormons believe that the king james version was closest to the real bible. truth was like a glass table that was held up by legs. the legs were ... something, i kinda zoned out. jesus? anyway, they were taken away when jesus was on the cross and the table fell and shattered and pieces of the truth went everywhere. then people found little pieces of the truth and clung to them, thinking that what they had found was the entire truth. i didn't get the chance to ask her what made her think that she wasn't doing the same thing, it seemed to dawn on her as she was talking. then she started explaining why she believed mormonism wasn't like that. her reason was that she felt it. she knew inside that it was correct because she had read the books and prayed and she was convinced.
Notag could see that my questions were not being answered. she even acknowledged it out loud. i was quite impressed by the admission. she said that she had been asking the same questions and that she had found her answer through prayer.
i asked why jesus had to die on the cross for our sins. my understanding is that god needed jesus to die on the cross for us in order to restore a relationship with us. the closest thing i can think of to relate with that is this. as a child playing with toys, i might have my toy broken by someone, and i would want to break their toy in response. in that scenario, i'd be god, and breaking the other person's toy is analogous to jesus dying on the cross. this is not a good comparison, i know. it's still the best one i've heard. i have heard that this is just not something we can understand, and that god is so otherworldly that it makes sense in a way beyond our comprehension. Notag tried to answer, but the answer started to get long. i think she drifted a bit. i remember thinking "how is this going to tie back to jesus dying on the cross?"
i also asked if it was my fault if i go my whole life not believing. can i go on asking and pursuing for my entire life and never come to the conclusion that god is real, but still be worthy of heaven? is it really my decision to believe in god? how can i be held responsible when there is nothing in my experience that can lead me to distinguish mormonism (or any religion) being real versus being made up? i believe the main answer was that if i keep asking questions like i am, and seeking answers, that i will have an answer for myself before i die. i have a suspicion that if i manage to continue asking questions and still have no answer by the time i die, i shall be accused of not trying hard enough, not wanting an answer.
at some point these deep questions felt a little exhausted. i asked them if they had seen the show "South Park". Curly and Swede had heard of it, Notag had a cousin who likes the show. i told them of the scene where hell is doing the orientation for the day and some minion explains to the crowd that they are in fact in hell, damned for all eternity, yadda yadda. someone calls out, says that they were devoutly catholic, another says they were an orthodox jew, and others protest as well. to each, the minion responds "no, i'm sorry, catholics was the wrong answer" and finally the minion says "i'm sorry. mormons. mormons is the correct answer.". the mormons thought that was funny. they had a sense of humor.